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Talk:Blastoneuron
This page should be renamed to Denevan neural parasite It doesn't matter that they did not originally come from Deneva. They were first discovered on Deneva and that's a perfectly legitimate reason for calling them Denevan neural parasites. "Denevan neural parasite" is their official name. It was used in The Star Trek Encyclopedia, The Starfleet Survival Guide, Star Trek Crosswords, Star Trek Trivia Book Volume II, the novel Assignment Eternity and the novel Gemini. The name "blastoneuron" was only used in the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual. In other examples, where a character has multiple names, the most common or most recent name is used for the name of the page (e.g. Ryan Leslie). If there are no objections, I will be renaming the page in a week. NetSpiker (talk) 03:23, March 13, 2016 (UTC) :Now, hold up for just a second. "Deneva neural parasite" is not a proper name, just a description. "Blastoneuron", on the other hand, is a proper name and since it's the only one known for these creatures, and since proper names shouls supercede descriptions, shouldn't this page stay right where it is? - Bernie Baer (talk) 10:55, March 13, 2016 (UTC) Actually, "Denevan neural parasite" IS a proper name. I'll quote the Starfleet Survival Guide: Denevan neural parasites (which are believed to have originated from outside the Milky Way Galaxy and are '''named' for a Federation colony they infested in 2267) are gelatinous amoeba-like life forms analagous in structure to over-sized brain cells.'' NetSpiker (talk) 13:28, March 13, 2016 (UTC) :It's about as much of a proper name as "Eridanian humanoids" would be for Vulcans. - Bernie Baer (talk) 19:48, March 13, 2016 (UTC) It's also the name by which the creatures are listed in The Star Trek Encyclopedia. Surely that makes it a proper name. If no one can explain why it's not a proper name, I will rename the page. NetSpiker (talk) 00:40, March 14, 2016 (UTC) ::The Medical Reference Manual gives them a proper name. Please don't move things for the sake of moving them. The encyclopedia name was obviously assigned to them later in the game (as in, it's a NON-TOS production resource naming them, as the script name is "Thing" or "creature" with those capitalizations). "Blastoneuron" is the closest thing to a proper name, but the BG can note that they're ALSO known as "Denevan neural parasites". -- sulfur (talk) 12:25, March 15, 2016 (UTC) I've decided to continue this discussion. Memory Beta:Naming conventions says Use the most common name of the subject that does not conflict with the names of other articles. As I have said before, Denevan neural parasite is a proper name, both in-universe and out-of-universe. It has been used in 6 books (including the Encyclopedia), 1 video game (Star Trek Online), 2 card games and startrek.com, while blastoneuron has been used in only 1 book, which makes Denevan neural parasite the most common name. You can't ignore Memory Beta policy just because you like the name "blastoneuron" better. Some of you have said that Denevan neural parasite is not a proper name but none of you have been able to explain why it isn't. NetSpiker (talk) 03:23, August 24, 2016 (UTC) :A redirect from the disambiguated name is more than sufficient to ensure functionality. Overall, using the most specific name and the simplest name is the issue here. Insisting that the longer name is more proper for some reason is really pedantic. There are more than one kind of neural parasite, so this one is disambiguated with the descriptor "Denevan". This makes the name overly complicated. A valid source supplies a more specific name which you resist. Just because these are commonly referred to with a longer name is not a reason to break with established wiki parameters to use a simpler more specific name. User:Bernie Baer came up with a very apt analogy months ago describing your error in this pursuit -- Captain MKB 01:10, August 26, 2016 (UTC) ::Another apt analogy is the name Pavel Andreievich Chekov. It's very commonly used. But it isn't the right way to link to Pavel Chekov because the middle name is not needed to differentiate him from another Pavel Chekov who has a different middle name. It's a lot easier to use the simpler version and that's where the article is. -- Captain MKB 01:26, August 26, 2016 (UTC) The reason "Pavel Andreievich Chekov" is not used is because "Pavel Chekov" is more common. The reason "Eridanian" and "Vulcanian" are not used is because "Vulcan" is more common. If we wanted to use the more specific name then "Vulcanian" would be a better choice, since "Vulcan" is also the name of the planet. Why do you insist on using a name that was only used once in an obscure book that hasn't been in print since the 1970s? The naming conventions say '' In general, the name should be what the majority of fans refer to the subject as, or else simply the name of the subject.'' The majority of fans know them as "Denevan neural parasites" because that's the name used in the Encyclopedia and just about everywhere else. "Denevan neural parasite" is no more complicated than Shenti Yisec Eres Ree. Calling him "Ree" would be simpler and would be specific enough, since there are no other characters named Ree. So you are incorrect in saying that the simpler name is preferred on this wiki. NetSpiker (talk) 15:18, August 26, 2016 (UTC) :The longer name is more common in sources, but it violates the rule of using the simplest and most specific name. Nicknames are not specific, so that's not a good analogy. You're wrong and there's not much more to discuss about it, especially since several other users in March made a consensus that your reasoning is faulty. -- Captain MKB 03:43, August 27, 2016 (UTC) I didn't mention any nicknames in my previous post. "Vulcanian" is the proper name that was used in TOS Season 1. "Eridanian" is the proper name that was used in The Tears of Eridanus. "Ree" isn't a nickname either, it's his last name. No one has made any consensus that my reasoning is faulty. Bernie Baer has said that "Denevan neural parasite" is not a proper name but he failed to explain why. Sulfur mentioned that "Denevan neural parasite" is a later name, which is irrelevant to this discussion because Memory Beta naming policy doesn't care about which name came first. Sulfur also failed to explain why "Denevan neural parasite" is not a proper name. I have repeatedly quoted Memory Beta:Naming conventions to justify my reasoning, so my reasoning can't be faulty. The naming policy says "use the most common name". While it does say that names should be simple and precise, it never says "use the simplest name" and it never says "use the most precise name". You're an admin, so if you wanted to, you could rewrite the naming conventions to conform to your idea of how things should be done. But according to the current naming policy, this page should be called Denevan neural parasite. --NetSpiker (talk) 06:50, August 27, 2016 (UTC) :Whether Ree is a last name or a nickname, it still is the wrong kind of specification for the character. Its still a bad analogy. :Bernie Baer sated that the Denevan neural parasite is not a proper name, and was correct. Its a vague descriptor, while "blastoneuron" is a proper scientific name. That's why he is correct and your reasoning is faulty. :Sulfur stated that the vague name was created later, after a proper name had been published. His point was that a more common improper name does not trump a proper specific scientific name. That's why he is correct and your reasoning is faulty. :The part of the naming convention you quote does not supercede the basic wiki guideline of using simple, specific naming, and correct naming at that. Just because you are latching on and quoting a different part of policy doesnt mean it supercedes other parts of the wiki policy. I'm not going to rewrite the policy based on a decision I make because that's disallowable by admin rules. Policies are rewritten based on consensus that fits other overall policies. The consensus here is that three users: myself, Sulfur and Baer have all supported the way this this article is named, and that is a consensus. At this point I am tempted to rewrite the policy to reflect their input, and to correct your misunderstanding of disambiguants and simplicity. -- Captain MKB 13:34, August 27, 2016 (UTC) You haven't been able to explain why you consider "Denevan neural parasite" to be a vague descriptor. The Starfleet Survival Guide is an in-universe handbook for Starfleet officers, so why would it keep using the term "Denevan neural parasite" if it was only a vague descriptor? 2.06 NEUTRALIZING DENEVAN NEURAL PARASITES Denevan neural parasites (which are believed to have originated from outside the Milky Way Galaxy and are '''named' for a Federation colony they infested in 2267) are gelatinous amoeba-like life forms analagous in structure to over-sized brain cells.'' Denevan neural parasites are extremely virulent and reproduce at an alarming rate, Denevan neural parasite are highly resistant to directed phaser fire The only effective method of neutralizing Denevan neural parasites without causing harm to humanoid victims is exposure to intense ultraviolet radiation. And Spock is not the kind of person who uses vague descriptors. Here's a quote from Gemini: "Scan of eastern continent completed," said Spock. "Presence of Denevan neural parasite not detected". Sulfur and Baer made their last posts before I quoted the Naming conventions to prove I'm right. I suggest we get a neutral third party who has not been involved in this argument to arbitrate. I will abide by whatever decision they make. I nominate User:Darth Batrus. Do you accept? --NetSpiker (talk) 01:44, August 28, 2016 (UTC) :It is a vague descriptor because it is not blastoneuron: blastoneuron is: a one-word (wiki policy: simplicity) name that is a proper scientific decription (wiki policy propriety) for a subject matter. :It is a vague descriptor because "neural parasite'" is a less specific (wiki policy specificity) description of something that has a formal name. :It is a vague descriptor because "Denevan" is an inaccurate (wiki policy accuracy) description, as the parasite spread with Deneva as their last stopping point, while calling them Denevan is an indication of Deneva being thair starting point. It is improper because it promotes an incorrect interpretation of what the name means. :This isnt about nominating another user to validate a consensus 3 users have made over the feelings of a single user who refuses to acknowledge correct policies and citations who have been presented. Im sorry you're unable to understand for whatever reason but the matter is closed. -- Captain MKB 02:26, August 28, 2016 (UTC) That's kind of like saying Guinea pig is a vague descriptor since they are not pigs and they are not from Guinea and the word "cavy" is somehow more proper despite being much less commonly used. --NetSpiker (talk) 04:47, August 30, 2016 (UTC)